Get off the bench, and throw away those fancy bi and tripods for a while!

[KurtM]

General field shooting has all but died in this country! I know lots of good shooters on the bench and off their "crutches" that can't even begin to build a good shot without them. Point brought home! Took a good LRP shooter pig shooting. We were walking along and out saunters a nice sized pig at about 40 yards. Now the clearing it was wondering through was about 20 yards wide. I said shoot her! Kinda quietly and he proceeded to slowly put down his pack and start digging around to get his "NON shooting sticks" ready, braced up his rifle and got the safety off and started to fish around in his scope to find her, just in time for her to disappear into thr brush. Now I got to admit she was really hoofing it, and it took her just a bit over 20 seconds to cross the opening. WTF???? I asked him, gently, why the fuck he didn't shoot her. The answer was well I couldn't get steady enough in the little time I had! REALLY??? It was a simple offhand shot! At 40 yards it is easy to put one right in their ear! Oh yeah he was also hiking around on 15X.
Need more, sure! Took a local departments SWAT and precision marksman teams out to a reaction range. We were shooting out of a building, range of 80 yards or so. Building had lots of window frames and all sorts of doors and areas to take up a quick, and in my world, stable shooting platform. Told them that targets would start appearing as soon as they entered the building. 7 targets went by in the first minute while they deployed all sorts of bipods, spotting scopes and binoculars. Meanwhile the SWAT guys with their Scoped ARs were diligently calling out range and target descriptions to the precision marksman. I asked the SWAT Guys why they didn't engage and was told that at these ranges that they couldn't get steady enough for a good shot and at those extended ranges it was best to let the precision shooter do the shooting! Again!!! WTF??? not one of them knew reverse kneeling, not one knew how to brace off a window sill or a post. Not one had been introduced to position shooting. I asked the precision guys why no shots and found out they always practiced off the bench or prone off their bi-pod.
Moral of the story? Get off the bench, get off your bipod and start learning to shoot!!!

 

[JEVapa]

I agree. I don't think anyone teaches Basic Rifle Marksmanship anymore. Even in the military, they are relying on RDS and Magnified optics from foxhole supported positions. When it comes to "CQB", they only learn up drills 25m and in and shoot dots and whatnot but take them to 200m and they all but freak out.

The basic qualification range for the US Army is 50m-300m; 40 rounds total, 10 kneeling, 10 prone unsupported, and 20 prone supported (sandbag) with iron sights. Now they allow their CCO and RCO (M68 and ACOG) and the new Sig 1-6x for qual. Red dots and magnified optics are great if one has the basics down, but if not, then they just enhance all the shitty habits IMO.
Advanced Rifle Marksmanship goes out to 600m with standing offhand and more positional shooting, but is usually reserved for a sniper course, but sometimes, in the old days, they'd do it when we had a KD range lined up.

I think the Marines are like the only ones left that emphasize Marksmanship.

 

[Kwaynem]

It’s been quite a while in a hunting situation where I didn’t already have sticks ready but I have shot a few when the shot presented itself off a tree nearby in the prarie at a distance I would be screwed

 

[KurtM]

Last Antelope I shot was at 237 paces on flat grassy plains. Shot him from a slung up sitting position. From a good seated position and a good shooting sling you can damn near shoot the potential of your rifle.
I was at a PRS match, one of the positions was on a downhill slope of about 15°, you had two minutes to find the target ( 400 yards away) build a shooting position and hit the target. Several shooters timed out. I have never seen so many gyrations of shooters trying to get bipods and tripods to work, and because it was a stressful position most missed with both their shots at it. It was a 2 MOA square. I sat down and slung up with the good old 1907 leather sling I have on most my rifles ( ARs get a homemade Ching Sling, but that's another subject). Opened the loop got it nice and high on my arm ran the keepers back to lock it in. At this point most of the guys were either laughing or saying what the hell is he doing? First round hit... Now I'll admit it was a bit lucky, but it sure as hell was guided luck, so you don't necessarily need a tree to shoot from. You just have to know how to shoot!

 

[JEVapa]

All my rifles with 1907 slings are set up to go on my arm. Surprising how many expert shooters don’t know how to use one or say something along the lines of “that’s Service Match BS” …yes I’ve actually heard that.

 

[KurtM]

Showed the guys at the AMU in Benning a Ching Sling made out 1 1/4" nylon and they went nuts! They were completely unaware of its existence.

 

[Kwaynem]

Ching Sling

Never heard of it but I’m not into competitive shooting what is it?

 

[AER244]

I’ve never used a 1917 sling, but I was taught to use my sling to steady my rifle when shooting offhand. And to use an expedient field rest whenever possible. I dont remember my dad specifically teaching us to shoot prone/kneeling/seated, but my brothers and I are all fairy decent at it. I carry shooting sticks at almost all times now- they’re too light and easy to carry not to- but I can think of several instances in the last few years where I didn’t have enough time to adjusts sticks so I shot off a knee/fence post/tree or offhand. Shooting sticks have saved my ass and helped me kill things I otherwise wouldnt have, so I certainly appreciate them, but they aren’t a crutch either. Im not at all saying I couldn’t use more “real world” practice as well, but id like to get more acquainted with the more technical/bench/long range type shooting. PRS sounds like a lot of fun.

 

[OK Corgi Rancher]

I've never shot precision stuff from a bench. All my shooting rifles have basic slings I use to support and steady the gun. I'll shoot prone if I need to get really steady but back and knees don't support a lot of sitting or kneeling these days. I'm not great with a rifle...maybe average or a little better. But I still can hit pretty much anything out to 200 yds with plain old iron sights. Red dots...like EoTechs and similar...help and I have them on a few rifles. I don't hunt any more so I don't even own a bolt rifle...precision or other. I have a 2-7x scope on a Colt A4 but never really use it for anything. I just like keeping stuff as simple as possible. Old fashioned, I know. You know us boomers...

Edited: I didn't know what a Ching Sling was either. Turns out I use a basic military style sling in a really similar way...just without the middle strap. It's a pretty stable sling position and I don't even remember where I learned to do that. I have all my slings set up to shoot that way.

 

[KurtM]

A Ching Sling was not designed for competitive shooting. It was designed for a very rapid sling system that provides almost as much support as a 1907 type loop sling. The down side of a Ching Sling is you have to keep tension on the sling to keep it in place on your arm. The up side is it is about 5 times faster to use than a loop type sling. If you look at the picture I posted of my JP you can kind of see what it is.

Corgi guy, I know you have seen them, both Rathburn and Bill Black ran them on their carbine's all the time.

 

[OK Corgi Rancher]

A Ching Sling was not designed for competitive shooting. It was designed for a very rapid sling system that provides almost as much support as a 1907 type loop sling. The down side of a Ching Sling is you have to keep tension on the sling to keep it in place on your arm. The up side is it is about 5 times faster to use than a loop type sling. If you look at the picture I posted of my JP you can kind of see what it is.

Corgi guy, I know you have seen them, both Rathburn and Bill Black ran them on their carbine's all the time.

Yeah...if those guys used them I've seen one. I just didn't know (or remember) that's what they're called. I guess I use more of a hasty sling method. Works pretty good for me.

 

[Camo]

Shooting sticks??? You mean a fork in a nearby tree for a long shot?

I get it, I practice unsupported standing and all 3 unsupported kneeling ( when I can get into low) every now and then. Back to the basics

 

[Cowcatcher]

 

[AER244]

Shooting sticks??? You mean a fork in a nearby tree for a long shot?

I get it, I practice unsupported standing and all 3 unsupported kneeling ( when I can get into low) every now and then. Back to the basics

Folks like PHG knew what shooting sticks are before they knew what a tree is

 

[KurtM]

"An Elk don't know how many legs a horse has got!" Will Greer
For all you steely eyed rifle shooters that don't just shoot off the bench, or other such trash, i commend you! You are a rarity in the shooting world!..... Although I still think tripods and cross sticks are.... Well... Kinda.... Sorta...... Well ya'll know!

 

[jacklabbit]

All my rifles with 1907 slings are set up to go on my arm. Surprising how many expert shooters don’t know how to use one or say something along the lines of “that’s Service Match BS” …yes I’ve actually heard that.

The nylon web sling or cotton web sling can be set up also.

 

[JEVapa]

I don't think there's enough to set it up for your arm and to attach it to the bottom swivel for carry.

 

[Tedkennedy]

Get thyself to an Appleseed!

 

[RickN]

Never needed any of that, when you don’t have money for it you have to improvise. I just use old medical supplies. An old crutch does well to stable a real American rifle.

 

[Cowcatcher]

Never needed any of that, when you don’t have money for it you have to improvise. I just use old medical supplies. An old crutch does well to stable a real American rifle.

Ken says you are full of shit.